001Okay. Thanks. Good evening. Good evening. I don't think the microphone's working. Well, good evening and thank you for joining us. Um, we'll get the microphone set up. I just want to one thing to our board members. If you were able to use your microphone when speaking, that was a request following our last meeting set up like this when we're all spread out with mics. Thank you. Thank you for joining us this evening. Um we are this is a budget finance committee meeting with no plan or action but setting the stage for the details uh of the 2526 budget. you know, I'll start with there are so many variables that are involved at different stages and you know, so working through it. Um, I'll do my best to make sure that it all makes sense in
002the place that it does, uh, throughout the presentation, but there will be an opportunity for questions uh, first from the board, then from our public guest. First, the factors leading up to our 25 26 budget challenges. They didn't change a whole lot from year to year with the exception of details. And would you say there was nine consecutive years without a tax increase before 2425? Obviously during each of those years uh the budget was tightened in response to the burden of national inflationary costs of supplies, services, salaries, benefits, etc. So in those years there was a lot of work done to continue to reduce the average the the annual increases that would have occurred without um that the our annual salary increases of about $700,000. That's for all categories. Um you know so we begin
003each year with a deficit partially because of the next four the you know corporate tax assessment appeals in recent years has driven negative negative overall assessed values throughout the district. Um the at the current mill center solution we've received $18,000 less for local taxes than we did in this year 2425 and 2526. Uh traditionally we've averaged over the last 10 years or so approximately give or take 1% of increase every year in overall assessed value and given the same millillage and that changes a little bit by year to year that would amount to about $200,000 more dollars a year. We went up 1% in overall assessed value this year as a result of the accumulation of of assessment appeals that started with one large one, you know, and now have accumulated through other small ones.
004um we're actually projecting less revenue for 2526 than 2425. Um in addition um in the absence of cyber charter funding reform which we talked about last meeting and we'll touch on a little bit here. Um last year there in the absence of that form last year there was something called the transition fund uh through the state where we received $107,000 um of state funding in that transition fund. In the governor's proposal, the transition fund was not being funded, but there's proposal for cyber charter uh funding reform. So, currently in the absence of reform, we are set to receive less money from the state department. And so, we do have annual cost increases and 70% of our revenue comes from local taxes. We're set to receive less in local taxes. And um our second largest revenue
005source, state is state funding. we are set to receive less than state funding as well. Um and then we face these increased costs to charter charter schools and cyber charter schools you know of note is cyber charter um which again we'll talk about some of the reform efforts and some optimism uh at least at least from the person standing here that we'll see some change this year. just to talk about referendum a little bit. You know, it's a this is a a word that we haven't used in the past really. Um the referendum is some just a brief story of the referendum. Again, have we have that percentage there of 10.629% 97% pardon me. Um act one limits the board's ability to increase taxes annually. There's a act one index that is set annually based
006off of several years of bowling um uh averages of increased cost across the state and then regionally here in Questtown. Um the current act one index r is 4% and the board has the authority to raise taxes to 4%. There we also have the opportunity to apply for exceptions to the Pennsylvania Department of Education in certain instances. Uh there's a variety of categories. The only one which we currently qualify we believe is special education. So therefore the we have not heard back from the state yet. We expect to have an answer from the state probably in the next week or so whether we are eligible for that additional 1.0183%. Um, anything above that, either the four or the four plus one uh 0183 requires a reference. Timelines for uh budgeting is really really challenging. We
007know we likely won't see a state budget until the end of June or July. Our budget is due in June. And as we'll talk about here today, many factors that impact the budget will kind of play out over the course of that time. Some of them very large that may never play out. and some of them some of them they're a little bit smaller. That being said, the board must approve and then send to the first board of elections a question for referendum by March 21st. So you see how those timelines don't work, right? That that you um it's really challenging to see all those pieces come together. So knowing the challenging uh decisions in several unresolved budgetary figures would remain on March 21st. board voted to put the full known increase to the public
008for vote on May 20th. When we last met it was February 24th. Um, so the number from February 24th changed between then and March 17th. I wanted to kind of highlight where those changes occurred. remembering some of those assumptions in the February 24th presentation. It was assuming a 4% tax increase which is the was the actual index. It also assumed kind of the historical increases in other areas including for this year historical and some known or projected including this year for health insurance 10%. Um we did have 10% for transportation. We use the current figures in the um kada contract as far as what the the one that is currently operational through the end of of June just trying to use those historical averages and at the time we use all existing stat. Um we
009did have through the uh over the course of that time between February 24th and then March 17 we accounted for retirements that were happening that were known within our staff. Uh some of those retirements occurred both on the uh professional side and the support staff side. We did account for an unfilled potentially one teaching position and did try to list where that was in the projection, but there's a couple different opportunities that we discussed tonight. Um the one, you know, the one directly related was looking at ESL. Um looking at kind of changing the way our ESL program runs, um becoming a one teacher with additional supports. Um the we have through retirements looking at combining uh the transportation improved services position like some of our neighboring districts do and uh through retirement opportunities. We
010did get notified by Pennsylvania Department of Ed that our transportation subsidy in the 2324 school year which we receive as revenue for the 2526 school year was increased by $150,000. Um, you know, honestly, we found some some uh variation in that to be somewhat unpredictable two years out at times, but it'll definitely um a benefit to our budgets. We see that notification from PTE. You know, very small looking at ed software, we use STAR uh in in many of our classes. But at the secondary level, looking to transition from STAR to Firefly, which is a state offered program to still maintain SAR in the elementary schools. Um and then we had uh I guess you me and I talked about that as well looking at the replacements to support staff retirements. That is what brought
011down that deficit number again still using all the assumptions from the top down to the 1.449 uh 1,449,000 that went into that 10% number because if you recall we were talking for a 12% you know initially in February. Just wanted to make sure that those were the changes that that those were the changes reflected from February 24th through March 17. [Music] Um so potential path forward, I think this is important to highlight because again the timelines are really tricky is that you know right now what we know is there's a referendum that language will be on um the ballots on May 20th no matter what happens from here until then. there is no way to remove. So we essentially have two paths that must occur at the same time, right? There is the referendum path
012path, pardon me. If the voters were to choose to pass a referendum, we need to have we will have a budget that includes exactly that 10.629%. Um, and if it fails, I kind of listed them as three options, but those are really just, it really is anywhere amongst that continuum potentially. Um, of the 5.01, expecting the PD exception to be an option, expecting to hear that soon, the 4% and then anything less than 4%. It's really anywhere within the range. The way the referendum works is that the number on the referendum has to be exactly, you know, what the uh budget would be. Everything else, it's within that range. Just kind of wanted to list them out. And that's how I plan to talk about them here this evening. Um knowing that everything between 5.01
013and zero is really there's really the options are um 10.62 62 and everything that fits between 5.01 and zero in theory. Just knowing that those are the two paths. So the first thing that we we will discuss then is looking at that 5.10 um without any of kind of the large unknown changes out there. We'll kind of walk ourselves through there. So looking at Oh, pardon me. put this back in here. This is a slide that we return just about every time to understand what a percent increase generates in revenue and what it does to our mill rate. Um, you know, we changed this would be identical to a slide that was in the previous uh presentation except uh we changed the percent increase related to the referendum from the 12% number to the 10%
014number. Uh so you look at looking at those key um places again I think important ones are to look at that 10.629 is 2.3 million the 5.01 01 is a little over a million. You know, 4% generates projected 874,000. 1% it's a good number to just have because it helps you kind of keep track in barker what different changes would be. Could be anything in between there. A 1% equals 218,000 which is what we're projecting. Um it just kind of helps keep organized and you can remember 1% is again next we go to that 5.01 material one as like the idea but these are really items that we'll need to discuss as a board. So here we here are our kind of tracking list from the 5.01. Remember the assumption in the 1.9 which was
015our starting point but then went down to 1.4 was the 4%. So when we say 5.01 increase that really only represents another 222,000 because four was already built in. This is just the addition to the PE exception. And you can see a running list on the right side as we look at ways to drop that down close from zero. So we have uh some positions um we will have um a vacant high school science position that we would not replace uh through kind of initial scheduling through the request through the high school. Uh we would be able to work with that number. We do have a position looking at say the middle school library and looking at condensing the library program that way. Um again you can see your countdown. Uh when you look at
016the numbers in the middle they're very they're not round because they take into account a variety of things. Um you know it's a it's a there's pieers cost then we get pie subsidy. So sometimes, you know, sometimes the numbers might look um much different than you might think in terms of uh how they are represented within the budget. We do have on that consideration looking at one administration position potentially as the director of curriculum position. Um we have the four sections of third grade. So that would be now the third grade level within our elementarymentaries where we would only have four instead of five potentially. In in currently in second grade, we would have an average of 24 students. What would be required to move students uh between buildings? It really works either way. Um
017you know, that would be a a decision we would booked based on transportation. Um but we still have a class average of the current enrollment of 24 students in third grade. Um potentially we would look districtwide and look at producing more part-time instructional aids. something that the administration team would come together and kind of determine where that would go. Uh we believe that's through attrition we typically have between regular and special ed vacancies over the course of that time where we would need to um identify where where the best places for that are. And then we have a small number there. We put this out in discussion last year as a part of budget process. Um pay to participate in athletics. you're looking at about $100 per participant in the secondary uh would generate just
018about $22,000. I have a slash there because there also could be an alternate model where we would um if the board wanted us to, we could identify a way to kind of replicate that uh revenue through facility usage. Currently, we receive very little uh money for facility usage because any group within or that serves students uh residents within the district, we do not charge facility usage again. So, we looked at that as potentially an either or opportunity, right? I think we would be able to create a model where we generate $22,000 worth of revenue from the facility usage versus the pay to participate. I think largely when you look at what that is, it's kind of shifts you know your pay to participate is is mostly impacting secondary students participating in your activities you know
019where I think if you shift to the other side it's organizations that typically were more um support younger students in the district but it's all the same families within the district. Again if you see that uh asterric at the bottom says does not require any furlowing in individuals within those this chart um you know as a key factor that we must consider. So there's obviously some movement that would be required but would not require any furling of current stat. The next slide is what we're calling the major unknowns. Those major unknowns occur currently unsettled agreements. We have two um which include our Kada agreement and transportation lumped all together um where the unknown factors of those two collectively that we are um looking at from our projections we we have them account for $618,000 when
020we lump those two together of our unknown currently unsettled agreements. The other major unknown is that size of charter reform uh that we talked about. The current governor's proposal is to set a base rate of 8,000 per student. That 8,000 would be for a regular ed student. How special education would be handled is sort of vague at the time of the proposal, but if we took our current cyber charter, the numbers I used to come up that 521 is actually at $10,000 of a base, not 8,000 because everything we hear is that's a negotiation certainly going to take place. Even though there's some optimism after many many years that there could be a change u at the legislative from a legislative standpoint in Harrisburg related to how cyber charter schools are funded. Again, this is
021only our cyber charter component. It wouldn't impact the students and their education just the way the schools are funded. uh because it currently uh any student that resides within our district and goes to a charter uh there's a calculation of $18,000 for regular ed 36,000 for special education that comes from the district's budget uh represents about $2 million and the total it's just about 5050 you can say about you know a million for cyber charter about a million for um brick and mortar and um the if if our current enrollment remain the in the cyber and the base rate was set at 10,000. We would say my projected is $521,000 annually. So major major unknowns, you know, that's dependent upon legislature. Um my hope would be that if that doesn't happen that someone would be
022put back into that transition fund and funded this last year with $107,000 nowhere near the 521, but we see you know there would be optimism for that. Those are and the way we put you know the way we calculate those are like the maximum values as we're calling it. You'll get maximum and minimums depending on everything from that maximum cost you know to theoretically zero is possible within within uh those unknown changes. So just kind of to summarize you know when we look at this um act one PDE exception uh you'll see the terminology there that maximum standing difference uh which is if everything went in the favor of the area school district budget right just in that inanimate object everything went in its favor over the course of that time in addition to all
023of the potential changes that were listed on that previous slide, which the sum of that was 770,000. You're then taking we are, you know, that would represent a $460,000 surplus in that's if all of those things, you know, if those unknowns were not 618,000, they were zero, which is highly unlikely. Highly unlikely, right? And if all of the other changes um that were recommend referenced in that previous slide were uh reduced in the budget. There's one the tax the 5.01 is actually um additional revenue while the others are reduced expenses. But for the purpose of this exercise we count down from the deficit. So it all looks like um it all looks either like a reduced expenditure or revenue. We just make it all look the same for the purpose of counting down. So again,
024the original number was based off of a 4% tax increase and then all of the other assumptions. So this is kind of going backwards in a sense, but the conversation here at the board level has been, you know, let's talk about the referendum side, which is the high end and what, you know, that what that would include would be not needing to do any of the things on that first 5.01 slide, right? And then well, we should be talking about the whole range, which goes down to zero. Well, the the 4% tax increase was sort of built into that $ 1.9 million deficit that we had referenced from February February meeting. So, we took the March 17th bottom line but made the def made the tax increase zero and now you see that number went
025up to 2.8 million. Um, you kind of count down, you know, through all those things on the 5% slide and you you you know, as you can see, you only get down to 2.2 two million here. Then continuing to count, we have the major unknowns. You see if the minimum uh standing difference with again they all went in the favor of the inadimate object it is that could center a school district budget. Um you're still looking with a 0% tax increase if all those things went um in that favor at a $ 1.1 million deficit. So then what do you do from there? Right? So this is again as I said there's so many variables that it felt like structuring this might be a little bit difficult to follow and I hope that line of
026logic has kind of landed so far. Um so the next is what do you do with 0% and a you know that minimum standing difference of zero. We kind of went through every possible scenario in you know and in every um you know potential that we could look at initially and if we went down you know as we talk about all the time the majority of our costs are in personnel. If we looked at six additional teaching positions and one additional administration position um you're start you're looking at $700,000 more. So based off of that countdown under 0% tax increase we still would have a $418,000 deficit. Nazis. Everything else went in favor of the budget using personify the chat. Yes, if you go back to your 5% the final slide. One after that slide
027after uh probably one more here. All right. So with this slide at 5% we're showing a $460,000 surplus if everything else broke our way. Right. Is that correct? Correct. So if we take the 5% away at $220,000% basically what you showed earlier. Correct. That would be roughly 1.1 million difference in revenue. So we should show a def deficit of roughly around 640,000 on a 0% instead of over a million if my math is correct. But so that that's probably an illusion of the way we did this because remember the 4% was baked in. So this was just 1% added or was already into it. I understand that. But the end result is in that final number of 460,000 is built in 5% total. Correct. So if you added that 5% back in, which is 220,000*
0285, that would be 1.1 million. That would show us having a deficit of $640,000, not $1.1 million at a 0% tax increase. I guess I'm not sure that the map on the zero So 5% you get a million dollars in revenue. So the difference should be a million less than $460,000 would be 540 640 somewhere in that range. So yeah, so we are so what we're seeing I think is that the deficit from the original is actually went back to the 20 the February 24th, right? And not to the March 17th when we started here. So I think you are correct in that in the 2.8 still doesn't that still doesn't work out perfectly, right? Maybe you need to go back and reevaluate the numbers, but I mean simple math is 220* 5 is 1.1
029million. So that should be the difference between a 5.0% 0% increase in zero. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I'm trying to figure out where the calculation error come in. It's difficult to do that, but calculators come up with something. I mean, the reason that's important is the very last slide that we showed is how many additional teachers you would have to put in to close the gap. That would be significantly different that number started at 600,000 as opposed to over a million. Oh, for sure. Yep. Yeah, that's what I was believing. like the truth. is the difference between so when we reran the 0% it was based off February 24th number not March 17th number you're right so the difference of it should be essentially $500 Yeah. Yeah. Which would bring that minimum standing difference
030at 0 to 627. Yeah. Instead of which is a mix of, you know, and that's uh again I apologize for that. [Music] the idea of the 0% and um kind of maximum minimum values put us into going back to sort of what was the original status quo say and the status quo the number is actually somewhere in between those two numbers because we did account for things that we know like the transportation and retirement replacement size but there was a few kind of changes as So it actually be if it was true status quo would be a little bit higher than that $500,000 different just think you need to probably set the record straight at least what's you know what number should we have represented there in the minimum standard difference um and then calculate
031all the way through. So this would be the perfect place to shape. kind of to add kind of context to that where the difference is not exactly the full number because we were if we were starting back to an original status quo you know there are a few here um the retirement replacements would um that would still come off the 1.9 the 99 would not you know the theory that 36 would not um the 150 would you know depending on how successful whether the other numbers would but uh it makes more sense to start from the March 17th point with a kind of general sense where those numbers are going to be once once they're finalized capital there are there other questions about kind of theory that goes into maybe just one other question. Sure.
032In light of the fact that we there was recently a meeting um about the green elementary thing. I just want to clarify that this budget does not have any factors of that school decision. Correct. Very that's true with one exception that I mentioned. There's no direct factors. But you know when we talk about sequential schools and the efficiency of staffing every time we do one of we we collapse to those four sections of one of those grade levels. It essentially is using some of those savings from staffing in each of the last two years we've done it. It's the third year what we're talking about it. So, you know, um what I've discussed Greenwich conversation, it's those numbers are going back to the 2324 budget. Um and this would be three positions down five if
033everything here happened. But that's through the efficiency uh the sequential schools model of just being able to in some areas increase class sizes but then having staffing as a result of that. Um you know what we've done is account for that to send students one way or the other. So that's the only component, but no decision- making related to it, just those figures. Yeah. It's not factored into this specific budget. No. And if anything, as we streamline, um, it takes it it reduces the amount of savings that we might experience if we didn't. That's that is Yep. Thank you. that yes, as we um look at the percentage of tax increases, I think it would be helpful for people um to know millillage. Um I didn't know millage before I sat here. And when I'm
034looking at the millillage numbers, um you know, we're we're talking Yeah, if you want to go to the next slide. the, you know, 3% increase would put us at 31.93. And it be really helpful, too, to compare our neighboring districts. Uh, Fleetwood is already at a 34.6. So, it's it just really puts it in a different light for people to see that. Yeah, for sure. Um I could pull up a slide from last year's that gives you, you know, the the previous um mill by districts. Just give me one moment. That's the one I Oh, so you have it. Yeah. And and you know, looking at it, we're what? 30. We're 31 31.00. Correct. Yeah. And Fleetwood right now is at 30 point 34.61. Yeah. So even if we raise taxes by 10% our millage
035is still lower than Cleveland. Yeah. Many districts have historically continue small increases where we took that 9year gap from that. So their mill rates continue to go up where ours stay the same. Yeah. So it takes it takes a long time to get back. But what I mean really helpful for people to see that that if we do decide to raise taxes is like listen are still lower. Yeah. Yeah. We can I mean we'll add that we can add that as a question onto this before we publicly post it from the board. Any other questions, comments? I know I like for the presentation tonight, you kind of have to be very general and in what you say. Um, if at the next meeting they're asking for when I say they, like us, right, the board
036would be asking for specifics. Um would that be the point where you would say what positions might have the less the least amount of impact? Yeah, beyond the ones we've already shared here tonight. Yeah. I mean, yeah, we would. It's it's we've we are we've cut positions every year in uh for the last few years. If we even looked at just what was presented tonight, not in that vague sense on the last slide, we're looking we're down 10 positions in teaching positions since 2022. Um, you know, the admin gets a little bit tricky because we've cut like parts of positions. Um, you know, so we we've significantly been reducing year after year after year with the exception of the uh 2020 2020 21 year. We jumped back up. for operating another school essentially remotely. But
037um yeah, I mean we would if that's obviously did not put that in there for very specific reasons that we're not anything in the realm of what we would be recommending. But if we have to make recommendations that's just one I know you shared a slide I don't know if it was you or one of the presenters in one of our previous meetings that our high point enrollment was near 1900 I believe. Yeah. Um and now we currently are at 1300. So I know that we've made some cuts in recent years but in many of the years prior maybe we didn't weren't acting as prudently as we were declining our enrollment. Yeah. And there was um I mean in the first we say nine years without a tax in the first few years it made
038complete sense because there was a decline in enrollment and there was a need for that. Um, you know, and then the last few years I was was here for most of them and many of many were many of you weren't. In each end in any given year, it made perfect sense. You know, whether it was the 2021 budget where we were budgeting from home and really had no idea what revenues or expenses were going to look like at all. in the 21-22 budget. Um, you know, we were the beneficiaries of millions of dollars of federal funding and with really um with not great economic conditions and not not a lot of understanding of what was happening in each individual home, it was the board made the decision and I you know it made perfect sense
039at the time to not increase taxes and use federal funding to continue to operate our schools in that sense. The following year was kind of the same. You know, we still had leftover federal funding and it was a decision to continue to use that balance budget. You know, now we start trickling down into the last two years and it just became more and more challenging. Again, you can also see that timeline of looking from back from 2014 15 reducing staffing because enrollment. Now, over the last nine years, our enrollment is essentially flat. Give or take one 2% or year, it's essentially flat. Since 2022, we still continue to cut staff, you know, annually for the purpose of being able to meet our budgetary needs while still serving. I I guess I would just look at
040it slightly differently that if we had a high point of 1900 and we waited until the last few years to start reducing our staff, we were just not rightized for a long time. And so although it's very painful to make these cuts now, um if they had been done when the enrollment started to decline, it would have been a lot easier to hand. I think that's fair. Just it goes back. We're going back before any of us were involved here. Any questions, comments from our public? Mr. Mr. Dishes, at one time we had 144 teachers. 15 years ago we lost 13 in one fell school. We have continued to reduce teaching staff since then, sometimes through attrition. But when you reduce position, you're hurting students. You know, you're increasing class sizes, you're offering fewer programs,
041you're doing everything that you say you don't want to do, but you're doing I I guess I would just say that I don't know the numbers from that far ago about the number of teachers and how many we chose to But there is a ratio. So if the number of students is declining, hypothetically the number of uh teachers and and administrators shouldn't should also be declining. I don't know that there been programs eliminated along the way. I have not heard much about that. So something yeah I mean in recent years we've really been cutting around the edges I would say in ter in trying to not eliminate programs um you know but programs and finding how you how you will like if you you have one less teacher in an area you might be able
042to offer selected that's not a full program it might be certain classes that we can't offer we definitely increased class sizes in the in the last few years um our 10 10 plus years ago our staff to student ratio um you know was we had more staff per student than just about anybody else. So the last few years we're in a very I would say competitive uh space from a staff to student ratio. We are not for schools our size. Schools our size always have you know typically some more staff students because not as efficient staff and you have singleton positions etc. Um but we've put ourselves to a very competitive place in terms of districts our size. Um yeah, we can pull out all those ranks. We've done that previous years, but you've seen
043us go from way more staff pursuit to, you know, ranked probably dishes our size uh in the immediate area, you know, amongst me. So Christian, could you uh go back to your slide that showed a $440,000 surplus, please, with the 5% just that you were using there? Yep. $460,000 surplus. So, it looks like there is a path to not have to continue to cut uh teaching staff. That's been shown this evening, not even one meeting of 5.01 if everything goes right. I find interesting uh about, you know, we also have the the option for a referendum. And if you go back to when our boards made the decision to become a more efficient school district and if you and and taxes stop being raised, then you would add 1% uh tax increase, you would find
044that you're going to be very similar in millillage to where to what the the current referendum of 10.63 63 provides. It's going to be very similar. So, the community, I think this year, is going to get to weigh in on whether they agree with that decade of becoming more efficient or if they want or if they would have preferred to see steady increases for the last decade. And even without there there is a path without a large tax increase this year and without the referendum to have a surplus without cutting making deep cuts as Christian's referring to. Yeah. I mean over that time record square small tax increases over that time you know would have landed us in a very similar place from a millillage standpoint um what we've done in that meantime has used
045some fund balance I mean there's no doubt used fund balance and you know in recent years and that was a known part of you know that that planning as well and we saw some years where costs were higher than what again we talked about a budgeting cycle we're projecting costs for May of 25 and May 24, you know, and just know how those those costs do vary sometimes, you know, depending on what's happening from inflationary standpoint, whatever the economic conditions are made. We've been very very good with projection within, you know, one, two, or 3%. But when you're budgeting on such a tight string, there are times where those sometimes when our data work often not. I think one point I just want to make that if we want to be able to run the
046school district with some consistency, we have to get past trying to just think about the current budget and only doing whatever we need to possibly do this year, whether it be cuts or tax increase or combination of the both to get through a single year's budget. Um, we have to start looking at what this budget is going to do, whether we increase taxes, we don't increase taxes, how that's going to affect next year's budget and the year's budget after that. Um so if we just try to get by on, you know, by the skin of our teeth or do what we did last year where we got by with a million dollar deficit, um we're going to be in this boat every single year for the next foreseeable number of years. That is I mean
047that essentially ends up being the argument on the side of any smaller, right? because then you can project it a little bit more where where we haven't then we are dependent on assessed value. We're dependent on other factors we can't control like state safety funding. We're dependent on hoping that legislative changes happen to you know we that's the result of us not doing that. You know, again, those are two sides of um I think very reasonable and valid arguments, you know, that have happened repeatedly over time that budget seems to hear, right? Is that the safety of long the long-term safety of planning it out that way versus running a budget based on what we need right now, right? And that's going back to, you know, when I started here, those were the dialogue and
048debates that were happening at that time. And they're really just tried and true um kind of philosophy of disclosure and in recent years we've done what do we need to do right now and um just makes it challenging when if we think about what we have to do as a district just in terms of our buildings and maintenance um regardless of what we decide to do um with the different buildings that we have we have to keep them updated we have to put money into those buildings Um, if we have it does I guess what I'm trying to say is that having a a net positive income at the end of the year isn't a terrible thing. That means that's money that we can put into capital to put towards keeping our buildings running um
049or less money that we might have to do, you know, run up for for bond issuance. So, um, you know, the zero looks nice because it it means that we're, you know, at least from a budget standpoint, we're balanced. Um, but any one thing could push that budget to, you know, in the black or in the red if we're always at a zero or how we have been doing the past few years being in the red for the budget. So, um I think if I mean this slide is slightly misleading because it's just saying everything goes in our favor. Yeah. And that just isn't a likely outcome. Yeah. And that's I mean that's where we go with the maximum standing. You know, it's it is it's not intentionally misleading, but it's it's the uber optimistic
050versus you know that we we just need to know what those ranges are. um of extreme optimism versus uh pessimism. And again, those are that's a signing kind of feeling a budget because it's about individual people's feelings and it's not the budget. Time for like five minute breaks. Okay. Hey, you just Yeah. Don't know Uh, all back to order. All right, we are we're back to order. Any other questions from our public? No other questions of the public. We have to ask at least one question or comment or the whole anyone online Dr. Mars. No, speak to a couple. Okay. Um there were two particular areas that I wanted to mention some of my concerns over this evening. Um, I I want to start by really recognizing the incredible work that our teachers do for
051our district. Um, we consistently rank among the top in our in the county and that's a direct reflection of their dedication and expertise and I certainly share and I know many folks share that that they deserve our respect, appreciation and gratitude. uh some of the recent accolades earned by our I I will say students and teachers because again I think it's a a shared partnership there too and as well um in Burks County Keystone High School uh we ranked first in literature in the county, second in algebra and first in biology at the high school level. uh in the middle school in the PSSAs out of 24 middle schools we ranked uh first in ELA in sixth grade, seventh grade and uh we ranked fourth and sixth grade in mathematics just as some examples. Then
052at the elementary level in PSSAs again at at grade three we saw KDS ranking second uh in third grade for ELA and ranking first in third grade for mathematics. So um again the the numbers do occasionally vary by grade but we are consistently at the top. They vary but we are always in range. So, I am concerned about some of the criticism that I've heard in in previous board meetings um and that I've frankly seen online of late as well. The idea that teachers are wealthy or taking too much is simply not grounded in reality or or fair. Um I decided to check out the job boards uh here in KZtown today. And when looking at jobs that require uh a high a high school education, I found a couple of the following. Uh a
053clerk working at Ruters in Pittstown earns about $18 an hour, which is an annual salary of $37,000. A warehouse associate at Bimbo Bakeries in Albertus would be earning $23.85 to start, which reflects an annual salary of $49,68. Uh if you want to drive a little bit further and have a different background, a dental assistant in Bethlehem could make $38 starting which is an annual salary of $79,040. We certainly know that there are other local companies, you know, East Pen, Deca, Sheets, Amazon, who are all offering competitive ranges that are somewhere within those ranges of of what I referenced. So, I wanted to to really put some of the teachers pay scale here in Kutztown into some of those similar terms because I do think it's sometimes hard to take what is the starting salary for
054a bachelor's degree um teacher who's coming into the district with no experience. They'll be coming in at $54,590, which is the equivalent of a $26 an hour, uh, pay. Uh, and, you know, obviously all of our teachers are required to have a four-year education, uh, college degree, um, and and have invested in their time and education to be able to bring to bear, um, a a level of expertise in the classroom. Uh if that same teacher sticks with us for for 14 years, which you know that's a great tenure. Would love to see teachers stick with that with with us that long. Their hourly salary, their hourly rate would go from $26 an hour to $34.80. That's what a a $72,000 uh salary is. That is in our current paid contract for a bachelor step
05514. If we look at someone who has a master's degree, they are starting at $32.80. Uh, and that they are going to go up to about um, uh, $87,000 uh, dollar a year in a salary, which is the equivalent in the low 40s. Um, and then it is true that we do have, I believe is it around 17 people within the district who are making the top of the pay scale, which does take you up to 110,727. So those individuals are up around $53 an hour. These are are individuals who have who have achieved the equivalent of a doctorate degree and rather than them going outside uh to work in in an alternative way, they are bringing their passion to and working in a length of tenure of 14 years or more here in our
056school district uh to serve our students. So, at that 110,000, um, you know, I I also want to keep that in mind because there were a lot of numbers thrown around in previous meetings about how that compares to other schools within the county. I'm really not too interested in comparing how we compare to other schools in the county that might be a small town 30 miles away, you know, 45 minute drive. I'd rather look at two of the schools that are right here bordering us. Uh if you just take one step off the premise made, you'll be at the Parkland Area School District. Uh in there, their starting salary for a teacher is $63,000 a year. So that's uh compared to our 50 uh 54,000. So all a teacher, if they're living in this area,
057they they want to find a job, take one step further out of this district and they can get uh a $9,000 uh pay bump. Uh when we look at the top of the range for Parkland, they are sitting at $112,000, which again, you know, that that certainly is an an excellent salary. Um but also uh when we look at other options that many folks many teachers and people who have doctorate degrees or even just bachelors have is 35% of the US workforce right now is is participating in remote work. Um corporate salaries for a a trainer a corporate trainer in a global multinational corporation easily start at $100,000. So I am very grateful every day that our teachers choose to work with our students to choose to come into the classroom deal with the the
058whole range and gamut of behavioral issues of iPhone addiction of of all of the hard work involved in nurturing and guiding um young young children to become the best that they can be. Um, I also wanted to reference that Northwestern Lehigh, which is another school in Lehi County that borders us, starts at 55,889, just slightly above what we're at as well. So again, I I reject this idea that our teachers are wealthied. Our teachers are appropriately compensated for the work that they are doing with our students. recognizing the tenure that they are putting in their expertise in their advanced schooling. you know, but to get to to earn not only a bachelor's, but also earn a master's and then continue on to 60 additional credits beyond a master's is a significant amount of of time
059and energy and effort that that teachers have spent to better themselves and to hone their craft and to bring that to bear for our students, which I I sincerely respect and value. Um, so I I am concerned that again having any conversation that is not treating teaching as the noble profession that it is with a respect for the myriad of options that they have to do something other than come in and teach our students every day. Um I again I'm I'm concerned and I encourage uh encourage us to treat treat our teachers with the respect that that they have earned. um whether it is coming in early, after hours grading, attending school concerts, right? They they consistently show up for us here at Christown and I'm very grateful. Um the other area that I'd like
060to to discuss is the piece with which we talk about Tito's cuts. It is staggering to me when we talk about the fact that we have gone in 2018 from 1126 full-time teachers supporting our students to today having 117 and we already are talking about easily three or four additional um teacher cuts. So, we're we're bringing us potentially down 12 or 13 positions from right before the pandemic. And again, the the enrollment rates that we're looking at have been consistent between that time and today. And that is directly impacted when we talk about larger class sizes. And we when we talk about our our students not getting the attention and support that they need, when we talk about concerns over bullying and not having again the the hands-on attention in the classroom, that is all
061a byproduct of trying to take 12 teachers out of our school system who are not there to support our students. So, I am concerned that it it becomes a bit of a a relaxed, oh, we'll just get a couple more teachers. You know, we already are facing the situation where social studies teachers, we only have three in the high school, I believe. Uh, you know, we're talking about going down to only three science teachers in the high school. Um and and of course with each cut that is made that is putting additional burden on the teachers who then in the next breath people are saying oh we're are wealthy and overpaid. So I'm I don't take it lightly when thinking about cutting teachers. strongly strongly against cutting teachers further from our uh from our school
062district. And you know, whether whether the referendum passes or not, again, I I do know from the consistent conversations that I hear and what we hear every month at board meetings that people don't want larger class size sizes for their students. So it is our responsibility as a community to be funding the education that we want our students to receive at the appropriate financial levels that are required in order to deliver that. So if we want to keep seeing our schools at the top of the list, first second, fifth, etc. We we need to make sure that the teachers are supported and that we are providing a learning environment with appropriate teacher ratios that allows students to thrive. Um and our our responsibility here as board members is first and foremost to our students. Full
063stop. It is not to the taxpayers who are a portion of the folks who have voted us in. I certainly respect our taxpayers and I want to be thoughtful and considerate and financially responsible, but our primary responsibility is to our students. And so I I really encourage us as we continue moving forward in the discussions, let's look at the realistic scenarios. I mean, I've never seen a a perfect everything falls our way scenario, right? So, again, we we know that's not going to happen. Um, but I I do think that we need to be looking at an appropriate tax increase to to help make up for those nine years of of no tax increases because I do not take it lightly to talk about about cutting teachers. And I do not think that it is
064the responsibility of our teachers to be having their own personal budgets squeezed because we as a community are not willing to support the excellent work and and the excellence that they have brought into the into the classroom every day. That is our responsibility to fund it appropriately, not not provide a a confrontational and negative work environment. I want them coming in giving their very best to our students to be energized and jazzed and continue to to really deliver the the excellence that we've seen. Thank you. Thank you. We have we have incredible teachers. There's no question about that. the we have a meeting today with more new student come in few times a year and that's one of the conversations we have is where where did you go to school where do you come from
065you know where have you been kind of observations and um the discussion is you're you're going to be in Christ and you're going to see best and have a great opportunity to learn we truly believe that I just want to correct one so we're scient um and one teaches some math sometimes and we have another teach scientist gets a little gray, but we still would have four department because of the varied levels. Other board comments. Yeah. Um, a lot of those thoughts I would absolutely echo. Um, and as a teacher myself, I I think I would just be the one to just say that uh there it's a a challenging job, no doubt. Um, it's a service job, no doubt. Um, so when we speak about the the salaries of teachers, I think what is
066often very challenging about this is when we're making these difficult decisions that they can often be misconstrued as devaluing of the teacher. And I think that when that message becomes one that's trying to be promoted, when somebody is just trying to say, "Hey, we have here's the state, here's the budget, here's the numbers, here's reality." And then when that conversation is pointed to or turns into um you know, the intent to be insulting, I think it's it's it's understandable and sometimes it becomes an unfortunate byproduct. So, I definitely want to just make clear that any any comments here or any discussions that um are being had are as far as I'm aware from the perspective of making these challenging questions. Um everybody's allowed to have their opinion. Laurel, I would just um you know caution
067you when you're selecting data. If you're looking at Parkland, I just did a quick research, US News report, the school of uh 9,833 students versus Tutztown. And again, just keeping off the same 1,355 students, Parkland, that's nine ele school buildings. So, it's um to when we're selecting data, I would always prefer to look at that data. Um, all of the data that we're going to be discussing is going to be things that reflect budget-wise. All teacher salaries are something that's always been known. Uh, simple internet search can look it up. So, um, we can see all of these numbers and, um, I think it's just something that's that's challenging that we're going to have to work through, but, um, the state where we're at, I think it would, in my opinion, would be best to
068reference like we do with everything that it comes to uh, when we're comparing education and standards and we look at the schools better locally and there's a reason why we do those things. So, um I think as as these discussions continue, um I think the point of I'm not aware of any of the the conversations that are happening online or anything like that. Um but I I hope all of those conversations are focusing on and can focus on the reality of the compensation, how they how they compare to other schools. And the numbers are very clear in that when you're looking at a school of 10,000 versus 1,000, it's a different tax base and it's a different scenario. It has nothing to do. We're I'm very proud of the quality teachers that we have here.
069So, um it's a it's a conversation that's very real. It has to be um we have to we have to find a solution for this. and where we stand right now. Um the we are at the top range in all of Marx County and it's just something that it's a reality needs to be addressed and there's nothing against the quality of our teachers. So I I was referencing the directly from the Parkland School District teachers contract. I will share that out with all of the board members afterwards. You are correct. they do have more enrollment and they do have a larger tax base than we do. So, I'm I'm not trying to make any commentary on that. What I'm looking at is specifically what their 2425 teacher um you know matrix looks like for salaries.
070Um I guess further, you know, it's it's a great point. You know, we can talk about not wanting to devalue teachers. Um, but the truth is we fund what it is that we value and that that is obvious in in anyone's personal home budget. You know, that's obvious in in a school district or in a federal government. We fund what it is that we value the most. And so if if the first thing that we are always doing is saying, you know what, let's let's not look at tax increase. let's just look at cutting more teachers. That that is a a direct statement from from my view on what I did that we value. So that is not what I I value our teachers. I want to keep our current teaching and staff level and
071and and staff whole and I don't want to have yet another year of continued cutting of teachers. Yeah, I'm sorry. Um, just one quick quick comment slashquest. Um, could you explain um what it means if we are approved for the special education um subsidy or not subsidy, sorry, uh yeah. What does it mean? Why are we being approved? Yeah. Like what what do what did we have to hit to be able to say yes? Yeah. It's not a very clear number, but what it does is it accounts for how much you spend on special education versus what it's funded through federal and state resources, which is very very small, you know. So we spend every district spend way more like 80% of the amount of special education than is actually funded. Um so that those
072numbers are calculated the state level and then you can maybe post for an exception. So without their specific number that's that's all we spend much more than it's funded even though it is you know technically a federal mandate. Okay. I guess so. My point is just to kind of plant the the seed of if that is an exception that we are granted. Um I really think it behooves us to seriously consider accepting that because um it just means that we have those higher percentages and higher costs of special education students. Um, and instead of trying to fund that out of our existing tax structure, it gives us that little extra flexibility to say, "Hey, you know, we understand that you have that higher percentage and it grants us the ability to properly fund those instead
073of taking that funding away from from the general like tax increase that we would be allowed to get." So um I just say if the exception is there I really think we need to strongly consider um taking that exception and I just want to re reiterate something from the beginning is that revenue is challenge right and that's you know we have we look at our budget our budget annually there's revenue on the expense side and um I think to speak to Mrs. Ziggler's point I think it's fair to say that how casually you know going to talk about cutting expenses because it's we have in this moment we have so much more control over it I think you know that and that's just become the norm in our budget conversations that's that's not really a
074commentary um you know where revenue again you have limitations through act one board can do but we also have limitations of overall assessed value which is crushing right now you know and that's where if you go across the state. You look at all the different types of school districts. You have those that are seeing massive increases in assessed value and whether that brings taxes or not, they're seeing that their revenue increases enough to, you know, cover those incre these costs. Um, you have some that are struggling as much as us or even more in some instances. And then you have different districts that are more kind of purpose centers that have a completely different funding model where you see more state funding and less local funding. But it's um it's really clear when you start
075going district by district, you can paint a picture of what the developments are in the area. I don't even know that's not an advocacy for development. It's just funding systems kind of unfair to a lot of communities like ours is the reality of it. Um and to see us in a year, we talk every year superintendent maybe that first one where we had no idea what's going on. We've talked about challenging budgets. This is the first time that we're saying there's a real possibility we have less state funding and less local funding, you know, without increasing taxes. That's pretty remarkable and and a bad, right? That that that's very very real and possible, you know, and that's why we have state government that's putting more money with education than almost ever before, but it's still
076not coming here as, you know, that that comes down to some calculations that they have in terms of how they identify where that money should go. Um, we are deemed by Pennsylvania as a as a community of education that's based on the system before cost, you know, so much really um, but we're seeing increased cost in all areas. So, you know, that's not that's just I think there's facts um that are reality here in our community. So, um, revolution the challenges. Yeah, let's be I mean privately and and publicly I think the conversations have not been on how to cut teachers this year. In fact, it's been how to keep those positions within the district um not cut them. So, I think it's uh some of the comments that have been made. I think it's
077very valuable to know that we've been searching high and low for ways to keep many positions that can fit in the budget including a referendum. I just have to comment someone who's been on both sides of the apor taxpayers are not a primary stake in these challenges that we're trying to deal with here that's very disappointing. Uh second with regard to comparing salaries uh it's of course the important number it's not just the salary it's the total cost of an employee including benefits and we all know that those people whose corporate salaries are being cited are not the beneficiary of defined benefit pension plans these days. Those people are all all on their own to finance their retirements. And so you can't just compare salaries. You got to compare total cost of an employee and
078it's again it's disappointing when taxpayers are not primary stakeholder FSD and I was going to supplement that a little bit more. This is nobody in this room in the district's fault but also states mismanagement at the time benefit historically. We also pay um you know minus we pay our pers rate which you know is that plus our FICA accounts is about 41%. You get some back but you can add 20% on top of that because the states you know I'm calling mismanagement years ago of those uh defined benefit plan. So you're right, the cost of employee is much more than what salary is in in a variety of ways that um it it's just part of our reality, our challenge. And those rise in PES cost uh costs was 15 years ago now when it
079really started to spike um changed school district budgets significantly because you take anybody you multiply it by 30% plus and that that's what the actual front end cost is. That's a huge huge difference that if nobody here, nobody in this community, nobody who teaches here, who was on the board here had anything to do with. It's a mandated cost. And I I appreciate, thank you for sharing your perspective. I I do certainly value and respect our taxpayers. Um our taxpayers also do get the benefit of the appreciation of housing costs in our area over the past how many years. So they they certainly are an important stakeholder within the discussion. Just for me personally personally the students are my top priority. So I I do understand and respect that there are other viewpoints on that.
080I I also on the the comparison yes uh schools take on additional costs and it's not the full cost of a burden of a of an employee as well as as corporations in which they are also paying above and beyond that 30 40% for medical costs as well as things like contributions to 401k plans and other regular benefits that are just part of of working that anyone one who has a bachelor's or master's or master's plus 60 you know credits could go out and look for alternative work in which there are are other benefits and burdens provided in addition to the salary by that employer thank you for your feedback I think one of the comments that we made is about we have a comparison the average household household income. I think you're going to
081find closer to $100,000 per year versus 75. The other thing too is if you look at crit budget versus budget, I'm going to guess that budget is probably about four and a half times maybe almost two times as much as our California say, I think is that a a good time when we should really be looking at those comparison mill rates because again a millage rate is what allows us to look at the the tax burden um that is uh held by a particular taxpayer uh based on the value of their home. And I I know Lea was mentioning there are many other districts throughout the county that are at a much higher tax mileage rate. So I think that might be a good comparison to that rather than But you also have people that
082you know have better ability to district. Yeah. I mean that and I again I I understand where you're coming from. I think that this is one situation when we're talking about um again the the taxpayer it's then looking at those militaries because it's it's not looking at the overall household income of everyone living in the Delta district. It's looking at at that property tax and that that mill rate that is applied to a homeowner. So again, that's where I think it's not quite as helpful to look at the the because the overall household income across the district will take into many many non- taxpayers who are renting etc. as well. I'd just like to maybe state that I think that's a a point that I hadn't thought about is the average annual income of the
083residents in the community. I think that's a good point. um because we do have uh quite a few residents in this community who are you know without children or retired or whatever and so all of our decisions although they are made in for the benefits of the children in the school there are also taxpayers who um are very concerned I've had a few phone calls about tax increases because their social security is not going to go up 10% next year things like that so I think the the annual income is a good factor I don't know the answer. I don't I've never looked at it. Um but I would be curious to know when we're comparing to other school districts. How do we compare financial as individuals? I'm sure when we can find a comparison
084to millage screen u right now that quickly this is just from last year to something this is a change in millillage from 2014 to 2024 you know see and that's by percent that's not by yield um but he's definitely given through our comments some good things to include in the next presentation um related to prepared millage rates I think the average income um is important as Well, uh, so we'll we'll pull all that together and make sure we include that in the next presentation that we have. Uh, we just know by percentage, you know, this was this was kind of change over 10 years. Uh, while we were we only had one increase at that time. This is not active today. It's prior to the 24 25 school year. Um, and you know, as I
085said, revenues revenues kind of came in this conversation. You know, until the hospital see that one negative because of the massive increase in revenue. um to assess value just so that I I know that I'm reading this correctly. So we're saying if you had a boy town over the last 10 years your taxes would have gone up 36.8%. And inum cumulatively cumulatively and in Fleetwood they would have gone up 16.78%. But here in Kutztown they have only gone up 2.4%. That is before 2425 that would be correct. if there are no more comments or questions. Um, can we talk about the cyers? Yep. Is there a are we able to look into why we have like students? Um we contact all the individuals and you know we get some answers from some of them many
086I mean when when someone changes to a cyber charter during a school year and we know about it. It wasn't it didn't happen several years ago. We do know the story. You know we always know that story and the story varies you know greatly by each individual student. Um so I'd have to go through the list. We do keep a list at our um virtual academy um support specialist kind of tracks continuously contacting those families and asking them for feedback as to either why they originally left or why they might not be interested in coming back to our KBA. And it just does vary greatly. Some from not bringing school experiences. Um some because they're looking for that flexibility. Many it's just a choice. Honestly, more than half a year, you know, you have families
087that move in already in a cyber charge as well. And you know, to them, that's a it's a it's not a barrier to moving yet, right? I mean, I think a lot of families may think about, hey, might I move or not? The school district is a really important factor if you're inside charge. That's not that way. So um I don't think we have great data on it even though we have anecdotal data that we keep um through our KBA support questions. I would say about 20% said three four principles and then they can tell you exactly why you know because those reason we know the story I don't see any any other comments Dr. I don't think see you don't see any more online or any online I guess um uh going switching back
088into the presentation just basically say I'm not going to switch back now basically say what our next dates are we have a we do give some budget updates at our regular meetings um on the first or third Monday of the month uh which we you know any presentations we Just as new information arises, we might give a presentation on that. You'll see it reflected somehow on the agenda, typically under the super report section, probably under superintendent report. If that's going to happen, comes out the Friday before we will have our next budget meeting, budget finance committee meeting on the fourth uh Monday of April, which is 22nd. Thank you, Dr. Clicker on that. I'm sorry. Um 28 the 28 I'm just start keep mimicking um the 28 thank you and we'll also have a meeting
089in May many things will change between that time but we'll also include in the presentations some of the data that we'll be receiving if you have any questions as a member of the public in the meantime please don't ever hesitate to give me a call or reach out you know it helps us inform what the next presentation is fun but also you know allows for that dialogue and uh we will as you saw we did the update numbers to um Mr. Dicious Mr. Mr. Dish's correction um counting that final scenario of 0% from the 1.4 more rather than the $1.9 million deficit. That will be updated and posted on our website um both under the bud finance committee meeting link under our imple school board and also on the agenda for this evening. I link
090it on there. So that'll be updated online. No other questions. Motion to adjourn.